Hetalia kink meme ([personal profile] hetalia_kink) wrote2010-08-26 10:32 pm

Discussion Post


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(frozen comment) Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-19 09:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Since we have no mods around, let's have one! I love them.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-19 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)

I need advice on two issues.

1) I want to write for a human AU, with Married!England having an affair with America. Would that be far-fetched? I do think that England would cheat, but maybe I'm wrong, IDK.

2) Also for England. I want to write for the "England recovering his language" prompt and it's set during/just before the Hundred Years War. I thought he would be a teenager (considering that it was the time he started to have both real independence and a growing sense of self) but I can't imagine him as a teen. Any ideas?

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-19 09:52 pm (UTC)(link)
1) It needn't be far-fetched at all. Just make sure that the characterization of England you develop in your story fits with that - and remember, too, that cheating is seldom black-and-white. Even if you think it's morally inexcusable in all cases, it's still worth acknowledging, if you're having your characters do it, that there are a lot of different reasons people cheat, and some are more of a gray area than others.

You're going to have to write him a lot more heartless if he's cheating out of complete indifference to his spouse's feelings and just because he thought America was hot. By contrast, he could be much more sympathetic if the marriage has turned cool but he's staying in it for some good reason (kids? mentally unstable spouse? etc) and is wracked with guilt over the fact that he's fallen in love with someone else and was weak enough to give in. You could make either work, or a wide array of other alternatives; it all just depends on how you've developed his character.

2) AWKWARD is the thing that comes instantly to mind when I think of teenage England. Of course most teenagers are kind of self-hating and awkward but since he's kind of standoffish and snarky and secretly insecure even as an adult, I think he'd be even more awkward than your average teenager. Not charmingly inept awkward, but the kind of social ineptitude that comes from self-loathing - snobbish, snarky, quick to create emotional distance between himself and others, feigning contempt for others when really the reason he doesn't get close to anyone is that he's afraid that they would reject him if they really knew him. Overly proud of the things he's good at, overly defensive about the things he's bad at.

That's my impression, anyway.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you.

In the first case I was thinking of one of those scenarios where there's no more love, but the relationship keeps going on out of inertia/routine. I agree that it's not a B&W situation, so thanks for mentioning it.

Your thoughts on Teen!England are great. I really appreciate them,

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 05:31 am (UTC)(link)
I agree with almost everything the above anon said, but I'd also like to add for the second one that you should be considering the time period. The idea of teenagers is a very recent thing. If you're writing about pre-Hundred Years War, then a teenaged!England would already be considered an adult.

These days it's a lot different, with every adult you know, or law-maker trying to give teenagers this whole period where they still don't need to be responsible for everything so they can just ease into adulthood. However, in a more olden time period, children were basically taught skills they'd need to be a functioning adult, and by the time they'd come of age (which usually was 12-13, but some time periods can be really screwy with that so make sure to double check) they'd be expected to jump straight into adulthood.

Teenaged!England should already be expected to be completely responsible for himself and others now; he'd also should be more aware to not expect anyone would help him if he needs advice or has a problem, unlike where most teenagers today seem to have this "I want to be independent but I don't want all that responsibility!" mentality. Also, it depends how long England in this fill has been a teenager. If he's relatively knew, the awkward thing stands, but if he's been like that for centuries, he should already be over that. I don't think you'll have much of a problem with the latter if you can write him well as an adult.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 06:08 am (UTC)(link)

Thank you very much. You make excellent points. Kings were expected to be at least 18 to be considered of age in the 14th century, but the rule was often ignored and Edward III himself was only 16 when the regained his crown from Mortimer's hands and no one really protested, so I think a teen England would not be considered a child.

The fill is about his feelings when the nation's elite started using English instead of French, so I think I'll re-watch his episodes with France (like the fashion one) to get a grasp of the characterisation.

Thank you, anon.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, well I've always wondered how could I write a believable Serious!Italy, but not make him yandere or anything. Just not as goofy, but still retain his personality.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 01:52 am (UTC)(link)
Somewhat unhelpful starting point, but whenever I think of Serious!Italy, I think of him with his eyes open. :'D

I'm sorry if this comes out rather incoherent; I'm just off of a 6 hour bus ride with little sleep the night before. >.>;; I hope I can still be of some help, though.

By serious, do you mean an ability to read the atmosphere? An actual work ethic? I think it'll help if you decide what types of things say "Serious!Italy" to you, and see how they fit into his personality, how they might contradict or complement features that are already there.

Anyway, I think it depends on POV. If you have access to Italy's inner monologue it becomes a little easier to convey seriousness/intelligence, because you can show the audience the difference between what he knows and chooses to ignore and what is actually just ignorance or silliness.

If you don't have access to Italy's thoughts, or choose not to use them, you can show his seriousness by drawing attention to physical or verbal things he does to convey that.

I've seen stories (very well done) where he's actually completely aware of the atmosphere and actively chooses to look like an idiot.

But yeah. Now that I've written this I'm beginning to realize it really depends on what type of serious you mean. ^^;

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
Oh heheheh, sorry, I should have elaborated more on that.

By Serious!Italy I mean a Mature!Italy. Like him being thoughtful and show a level of forthought because that's what a designer would be. Or innovative and efficient in car-making. A more effective and reliable Italy that appears to be clumsy and irresponsible, but really gets things done.

So how would I write an Italy that's still carefree, but when worse comes to worse, he'd be the one to deliver.

I also wanted to know how he'd be in a pairing where he is the more dominant partner.

Re: Characterization thread

(Anonymous) 2011-02-20 06:12 am (UTC)(link)
How about starting from his concern for his friends? He's always trying to really help Germany out, even though he fails at everything. He doesn't like it when other people are upset around them and he usually tries to cheer them up. You could play on that, just minus the fail part.

Maybe show this by having Germany or Japan worried over some issue, and Italy noticing it. You can show him actually thinking seriously about this, either by detail to his expression or showing his thoughts. As long as the setting isn't during a war, there's a lot more Italy can do to help. He just doesn't like to fight, so in the comic it doesn't really show him doing much other than being goofy and pasta-loving, but when there's no war going on there's nothing to limit in what he can do to try help.

It's stated that Italy performs better when there are women around, so you can also play with that. Either have Italy doing something difficult in front of women to impress them, or if you're doing this for a certain pairing, make Italy more aware that he wants to impress the other nation. So you can have him be more successful whenever they're around to show how serious he is about liking them.

Last thing, Serious!Italy =/= Not-Stupid!Italy. Your level of intelligence doesn't solely determine your level of seriousness. It helps, but there are a lot of other factors. Take a child prodigy, they're smarter than all the adults around them, but they would rather be at home playing computer games and watching cartoons instead of trying to solve some serious problem for the world - like curing cancer. However, you have WBC who are run by a lot of idiots, but they're so serious about their religion. So just because you want to make Italy serious, doesn't say that in a moment where he should be genuinely stupid you need to make him a genius instead.

(frozen comment) Re: Characterization thread

[identity profile] hetalia-kink.livejournal.com 2011-02-21 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.